Adam Kostakis – Is gynocentrism a biological essential? (2011)

The following is an informal discussion on whether gynocentrism is a ‘biological predisposition,’ which took place between commenter ‘Julie’ and Adam Kostakis in the comments section under his essay Anatomy of a Victim Ideology Lecture No. 5.

Julie said…

Hello,

NB: My english is not perfect so I can be hard in what I say, no subtilities, but don’t see bad intention.

I readed all your lectures, very interresting. And also many others blog with great interrest. I can’t agree with misogynistic views, but I agree that you have it very bad now in western world. And that can’t continue no longer.

Gynocentrism, I think, is in good part based on human biological instinct. In other word it’s here to stay. For the good and for the bad. Evolution have gived us superior biological value and status. Nature have created you with a purposes of “serving” us (providing, protection, etc.). You can’t escape this, no more than us. But balance is needed, We are different but in a symbiotic relationship.

You said the feminist project is increasing the power of Women. No problem there for me until this power is on our own life but this is not what they ask for.

I agree that they (the radical feminist) want political Female Supremacy in a way or another. They are not numerous but influent.

This influence is increased by the fact that, we Women collectively “lack care” (a kind of indifference) about you collectively. I mean as a gender. We say notting and let them go. May be because of an instinctive gynocentrism, may be because we beleave that you are strong and don’t need it or we have learned to beleave that. I don’t know.

Nevertheless, I think you have a bigger problem than those radical Women. The much more numerous males advocating and acting for this lunacy. Some of those men are prime minister, governor, president, judge, representative, etc. And they vote laws, policies and rules. Some of those males have kinky fantasm about Female Supremacy. Some have money and career in it. Some are just the kind of male ready to say yes to anything a Woman ask…

The general unvisible climate of misandry. (I discovered his existance with stupefaction after reading about it.) Is in part created by the same males. Like the t-shirt saying to throw rock at boys… Created by males for profit!

Because of my life-style, I know this kind of males, they are excessive, deeply anti-male, they beg me telling me how males are stupid, worthless and blah blah blah… Dreaming of Female led totalitarian regime…8/2/11 10:21 PM

Adam Kostakis said…

Julie,

I did not believe that Gynocentrism is a biological predisposition. I do not believe that evolution grants women superior biological value and status. I do not believe men are created to “serve” women, or that this situation is inescapable. What you describe is not a symbiotic relationship, but a parasitic one. And it is one I believe is socially constructed. It’s an enduring relationship, for sure! But you know what they say, rules are made to be broken.

I also disagree that women are indifferent to the plight of men and boys – I know, and have talked to, plenty of women who are deeply concerned about misandry.

What you have described is a set of Gynocentric myths. I am sorry to see that you have bought into them. Perhaps you believe that Gynocentrism is an inherent human trait because it helps you feel secure in your privileged position – if it is inherent, it cannot be taken away.

You are correct that there are a number of men advocating for the lunacy of radical feminism. When attacking feminism, I do not attack women. I attack feminists, whether they be men or women.

However, I do believe that the climate of misandry is created – exclusively – by women. Certain powerful men are the enablers, but they did not create the hatred.12/2/11 8:38 AM

Julie said…

Adam,

«I do not believe that evolution grants women superior biological value and status.»
What I mean by superior biological value is that to perpetuate our species (like every mamals)the bottle neck is the number of Women. This is why every culture are ready to give up males’ lifes to protect us from danger. You will agree on that fact.

«I also disagree that women are indifferent to the plight of men and boys – I know, and have talked to, plenty of women who are deeply concerned about misandry.»
May be the misunderstanding come of my limited english. I agree with you, many Women are concerned, I’m myself concerned by this misandous climate. Otherwise why the hell I was here?

«However, I do believe that the climate of misandry is created – exclusively – by women.»

On that I can only disagree.

Firts,I saw some contradiction here with what you said before «I also disagree that women are indifferent to the plight of men and boys» We can’t be for and against it in same time.

We are in part responsable, because We buy the t-shirt saying to throw rock at boys. But, We don’t made them. And the greatest misandrous things I have seen was from males.


«Certain powerful men are the enablers, but they did not create the hatred.»

The enabler is money, We are controling most of the spending of each household. The proof of that is in the number of store dedicated to us in any mall.

They want the money, they try to seduce us. They do itthe same way the males telling Me how stupid males are. Unfortunately, We are buying in that because We saw this as fun. And they push more of it the next round.

«When attacking feminism, I do not attack women.»
This was clear for Me. It’s unfortunately not every MRA. I sawed, many who are in misogyny and hate.15/2/11 7:49 PM

Adam Kostakis said…

What I mean by superior biological value is that to perpetuate our species (like every mamals)the bottle neck is the number of Women. This is why every culture are ready to give up males’ lifes to protect us from danger. You will agree on that fact.

I will not agree on that point of view. I see this biological essentialism as a gloss on traditional female privilege. For one thing, you’re only talking about a narrow band of women – namely, those who are young and fertile. Am I to believe that those beyond their most fertile years (i.e. older than 25) are recognized as having no greater value than the average man? Of course not: women remain privileged, regardless of their age and fertility. Reproduction really has nothing to do with it.

Moreover, any society with a deficit of men will not survive very long. It is men who design, create, build and maintain the infrastructure of society. Insofar as women give birth to the next generation, men give birth to civilization itself. Remove men from the equation, and we return to some primitivist state of nature.

Now, as a corollary of rooting out Gynocentrism, this latter historical fact will be forced to change as well: women will have to contribute to the building and maintaining of society, or they will be forced out – which is the deal men have always been handed.

So, you see, I’m very set against all notions of biological essentialism – historically it may be the case that women were valued more for reproductive reasons, while the onus was on men to build, maintain and defend society. That does not have to be the future, and if feminists were really honest with themselves, they would admit that such an idea, egalitarian as it is, scares the living daylights out of them.

I agree with you, many Women are concerned, I’m myself concerned by this misandous climate. Otherwise why the hell I was here?

Yeah – my comment wasn’t attacking you personally. You said that women are indifferent to the plight of men and boys, I responded that I know this to not be the case, but I did not mean to suggest that you are indifferent.

Firts,I saw some contradiction here with what you said before «I also disagree that women are indifferent to the plight of men and boys» We can’t be for and against it in same time.

It’s simple. Some women are not indifferent to the plight of men and boys. Other women are indifferent. And still other women are the generators of misandry. I do not view a social entity so heterogeneous and amorphous as ‘women’ to be one solid bloc. Within ‘women’, we find individuals who are inevitably going to fundamentally disagree with each other on basic principles. There is no contradiction to say that misandry is in the first instance generated by (certain) women, and that there are (certain other) women who oppose misandry.

Just like men, really.16/2/11 2:36 AM

Adam Kostakis said…

We are in part responsable, because We buy the t-shirt saying to throw rock at boys. But, We don’t made them. And the greatest misandrous things I have seen was from males.

I won’t dispute that (certain) men are responsible for aiding and enabling misandry. The person who created the T-shirts you refer to is, indeed, a man – I believe his name is Todd Goldman.

But, put it this way: if hatred against men and boys did not already exist, would Todd have been able to sell his T-shirts?

Can you imagine anybody selling T-shirts saying “blacks are stupid … throw rocks at them” today? I can’t. But what if T-shirts were in vogue in the early 20th century Deep South? I’m sure those T-shirts would be sold by the truckload. The hatred needs to already exist for the product to be saleable.

And that’s why I say that (certain) women generate misandry, while (certain) men are its enablers. Todd Goldman and men like him capitalize on female hatred against the male sex. Todd does not create the hatred. If the hatred was not there, nobody would buy the T-shirts; everyone would be repulsed by the very idea.

“The enabler is money, We are controling most of the spending of each household. The proof of that is in the number of store dedicated to us in any mall.”

This is partially true. Money is surely the motivator for Todd Goldman and men like him – as I said above, they capitalize on female hatred of the male sex. Essentially, they sell out their own sex to make a quick buck. I won’t deny that men like this are misandrists, but I think striking at the root is a more effective strategy, and in this day and age, that means attacking feminists.

“This was clear for Me. It’s unfortunately not every MRA. I sawed, many who are in misogyny and hate.”

Yes. I find it unfortunate that many MRAs use inflammatory language which turns off potential supporters. On the other hand, I understand exactly why they do it, and wouldn’t want to take away their rights to express themselves however they please. They are venting, because for years (decades for most), they have had no place to express their dissatisfaction with feminism and Gynocentrism. They now have that place, very suddenly, and having bottled up rage for most of their lives, they are for the first time given the opportunity to blow off some steam. Predictably, the bottle erupts all over the place. There is some serious anger, and it is emanating from good men: a sure indicator that times are going to change.16/2/11 2:36 AM

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